The Tridentine Mass And Spiritual Planes

I've had several comments on yesterday's post about the Extraordinary Form vs the Ordinary Form Latin mass. For my part, reconstructing my memory of the 1950s mass in Elizabeth, NJ, I remember purposeful hand gestures of some sort being made at the altar, some mumbling (but that would have been a 10-year-old Protestant boy's impression of Latin), and bells ringing. It's pretty plain 60 years later that this was the prayer of consecration taking place, which speaks to the accuracy of my memory, as well as the clear sense I had that something of consequence was going on, which our mom pulled us away from.

However, I'm of the view that the 1950s mass in Elizabeth was the same thing as the 2019 mass we get on Sundays here.

The visitor from Greenville, TX comments,

Just a minor correction, while we don't currently have an Ordinary Form Mass in Latin in Greenville right now, our interim pastor has promised to bring it back as soon as he's comfortable with the Latin pronunciation.

As far as the OF in Latin goes, I'm not sure it appeals to any "serious" traddies - the Ordinary Form is admittedly highly problematic in many ways, but so is the crystallized TLM it superseded. I've gotten the impression that for most, a Latin OF is simply an almost-acceptable substitute for a proper TLM according to the 1962 Missal (but certainly not something to choose if a TLM is available within a two-hour radius).

This may sound hyperbolic, but I've actually heard former parishioners of St Williams who migrated to Mater Dei (the big FSSP parish in Irving) say things like, "Fr Paul is great and we're really glad he offers a Latin Novus Ordo, but we've ascended to a higher spiritual plane now".

My regular correspondent comments,

When the Oratory was erected in Toronto in 1979 it took over a slum parish and began offering the OF in Latin as the main Sunday mass. A number of the Oratorians at the time were former Anglicans. It became the go-to parish for local former High Church Anglicans generally—-the sort of people who had hesitated because they found the modern English version of the OF too grating. When Pope Benedict issued Summorum Pontificam in 2007 the parish switched to the EF. They have subsequently been given a second parish where the EF is also offered, and since September 2016, DW. I would be interested to know if the OF in Latin is regularly celebrated much of anywhere now. This post suggests not. The market for it strikes me as very niche.

Of course, as I mentioned previously, many of the objections Traddies have to the OF involve versus populum celebration, Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, communion in the hand and other things which although allowed in the post-1962 rite are not required. In a parish like Holy Rosary, Indianapolis the music and “ritual options” are basically the same for its EF and OF celebrations. But there are textual differences, and the calendar is not the same, as we see here. Presumably diehard EF supporters find the OF Offertory prayers just as objectionable in Latin as they are in English.

The fact that people who previously attended the Latin OF at OLA are unhappy about its cancellation is predictable. It’s what they have become used to, and they don’t like change. But as I stated before, unlike most of the “Anglican Patrimony” identified by Ordinariate spokespersons, which on close inspection is nothing more than Catholic custom which has persisted in Anglo-Catholic circles while falling into desuetude in the Church generally, vernacular liturgy is a core Anglican value (which it shared with the Reformation generally, as you pointed out). A “shared treasure” which the Church already embraced fifty four years ago.

Of course Anglicanism’s commitment to vernacular liturgy led to the production of the BCP in dozens of local languages, wherever the British and/or American Empire set foot. Two communities which worshipped in Spanish as Episcopalians dispersed after joining the OCSP, which has no Spanish version of DW. I am sure that the lack of a distinctive liturgy was a factor in their decision to become part of the Spanish-speaking congregations in their host parishes. The description of the liturgy used by the Australian ordinariate congregations in Japan sounded like a dog’s breakfast, and has undoubtedly not been approved by any competent body. In any event, it was pretty much the Japanese OF. Again, why go out of your way to attend a mass which is indistinguishable from that at your local parish?

Another visitor picked up on my reference to "mumbling" (which as I said above was I think a boy's reaction to hearing Latin from the last pew, not necessarily a criticism of the celebrant). However,

You will see that liturgical "traditionalists" are divided about the audibility of various parts of the Tridentine Mass said by the celebrant. It is not simply a question of "dialogue Mass" vs. "(mostly) silent Mass;" the latter can be seen as as much an abuse as the former is an innovation of the last century (with Irish antecedents). I am not really a "traditionalist", but so much of what formed the "liturgical reform" of the late 60s of the last century was based on fashionable fads (e.g., "Mass facing the people") defended on historical grounds which scholars have now abandoned.

Houston still releases no statistics on any breakdown of cradle Catholic traddies vs genuine Anglican converts among its laity, but I think it's puzzling that so many photos we find on the web of ordinariate masses show ladies wearing chapel veils, when this hasn't been part of the Anglican tradition for some centuries, and indeed is only occasionally seen in diocesan parishes.

Maybe there are people who feel wearing chapel veils at an ordinariate mass puts them on an intermediate spiritual plane, but they'll ascend to the Latin one when they're ready.